Students are to post reactions (minimum 350 words) to the assigned reading linked below. Students are encouraged (but not required) to additionally respond to other student reactions.
Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Middle Grade: A Conversation w. Editor Molly O'Neill: "As you know, I have a marketing background, which means that whether or not I intend it, one of the first things my brain starts thinking about for a book is its readership: who is a book FOR? What kind of reader is it going to reach, and how? Maybe instead of asking “What is middle grade?” it’s easier to think about “Who is the middle grade reader, and what is he/she looking for in a book?” I think that a middle grade reader is often (and note, I’m speaking BROADLY, here) reading for one of two reasons: to understand, or to escape. Middle grade readers who read to understand look for stories that help them piece together the truths that seem to be opening up all around them, about the world and their place in it, and the connections between themselves and their family, their community, their friends, etc. Or they’re reading to understand about a different time/ place and what it was/would be like to be a kid then. Or they’re reading to just understand how stuff works, period—from the everyday mundane stuff to big concepts like justice and honesty and friendship and happiness and love. Click heading to read the rest of the interview."A Definition of YA" by Brooklyn Arden: "So I've been thinking off and on about a practical definition of YA literature -- something I could look at to help me decide whether a manuscript is an adult novel or a middle-grade novel or, indeed, a YA. Such delineations don't matter to me as a reader -- a good book is a good book -- but they do matter to me as an editor and publisher, because I want every book I publish to find the audience that is right for it, and sometimes, despite a child or teenage protagonist, a manuscript is meant for an adult audience
An SFWA Introduction to Middle Grade & Young Adult: "For writers who are interested in writing middle grade or young adult fantasy or science fiction, the first step is puzzling out what exactly those categories mean. Science fiction and fantasy, after all, has a long tradition of featuring young protagonists — including such classics as Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey, Pawn of Prophecy by David Eddings, and Arrows of the Queen by Mercedes Lackey — even if those novels weren’t originally published as middle grade or young adult books." Click heading to read the rest of the article.
"Middle Grade and YA: Where to Draw the Line?" by Judith Rosen: "Since Harry Potter first hit these shores in 1998, there’s been confusion over where best to shelve it: put it where most kids look for it, in middle grade (ages 8–12), or where the later, darker novels belong, in young adult (ages 12–up)? But J.K. Rowling’s books aren’t the only ones that fall into a gray area, especially as more kids aspire to “read up” because of popular films like Divergent and The Hunger Games. At the same time, adults have begun reading down, not just YA but also reaching for middle-grade books like Wonder and Out of My Mind, because they don’t want to miss out, either." Click heading to read the rest of the article.
29 comments:
The distinction between MG and YA books is something that I haven't really thought about before the topic of discussion came up. I just assumed that it would be set apart by categories of maturity, such as swear words, topics that only adults care about, and material unsuitable for younger children. Something I often overlook is the "coming-of-age" concept, which personally isn't my cup of tea, but it's discussed in the Molly O' Neill discussion, where adult authors have to recognize the perspective of their younger readers, the roles that they currently hold, and the roles that they're seeking. Another interesting detail that this article brings up is that middle grade books should have protagonists around the same age as the intended reader demographic. That's a difficult thing for me to do. I don't remember much from my younger days that I really valued other than reading and writing, and in my current days, I find it hard to bridge the age gap with relatable elements.
That same issue also carries over to my young adult writing, since even though I can address more mature topics and be more diverse in the choice of my protagonist's background according to the Brooklyn Arden article, it still highlights an emphasis of teenage connection. The margin of how much I can relate to YA is larger in comparison to MG, but it's still a challenge. However, as I continue reading this article, it seems to me that YA writing is what I prefer, although I still have to broach the issue with the protagonist's age and background for the story I'm currently writing for this class.
The other two articles compile the distinctions between MG and YA writing in summarized, yet sufficient detail. As I'm perusing through these articles, it seems to me that within my writing, I'm willing to write about topics which pose great interest to these demographics, but I'm currently unwilling to present them through a perspective of their own peers. I'm a bit conflicted on where to move forward in such cases of writing in the future, as I feel that my connections would be more accurately portrayed through the lens of an adult figure, with the paradox being that this may not be a standard theme that grown-ups would generally be interested in.
Middle Grade and Young Adult fiction in terms of classification, I hadn't given much thought. When I have picked up reading, I was more into young adult since I started reading a lot more when I was around 15, middle grade never interested me besides maybe Diary of a Wimpy Kid when I was in elementary school. However the thing that got me intrigued into this conversation was what one post pointed out, “YA and middle grade books should speak to their respective target audience, with an accessible voice that truly speaks to the reader and doesn’t talk down to them.”
YA fiction will often have situations and characters and plots that simply appeal more to an older audience, however, that doesn’t necessarily mean that these novels should be shut out entirely to younger ones. These genre classifications are just that, a classification. A suggestion. I fear that some readers may be deterred from reading certain books because they are not of “age range” which could theoretically help the right book get into the right hands but it also is a double-edged sword, the right book can turn up in no one’s hand if it is labeled incorrectly or if a reader is just too shy to explore other genres.
When it comes to writing, I did in fact get a better idea of what is and what isn't YA/Middle Age. I don't think personally I would get much from writing Middle Age, because I fear my life is so far gone from that sort of life state that I wouldn't be able to appeal to the audience well enough. I would rather instead write YA for more older audiences as I like mature content and themes in my writing. But I wouldn't say I would never try writing Middle Age!
Molly O’Neill’s point about middle-grade readers wanting to escape and to understand really hit home for me. As an elementary and middle-schooler, I wanted to travel to fantastic worlds and have vicarious adventures, but at the same time I also wanted to understand how the real world worked, particularly because I was often overwhelmed by its complexity. I would argue that this demographic of escaping-understanding extends to a lot of readers beyond middle-grade ones, though now that I am older I can understand why adults might want to curb their complexification of the world in favor of some pure escapism.
Similarly, I liked Brooklyn Arden’s point about how adult novels tend to center on an adult character or have a child/teenage character with a naïve perspective. I remember reading The Little Prince in late elementary school and wondering, “What the heck did I just read?”, because it was terribly confusing and possibly psychedelic. I reread it last month and finally understood it better, but realized that I probably didn’t think much of it the first time around because it involves an adult’s perspective, a child’s extreme naivete, and the adult rediscovering an appreciation for that naivete. This made no sense to me as a kid, since I thought that adults were clever, but definitely not in the same way as children (for example, I didn’t know any adults who were very interested in unicorns and fairies, or whether or not it was possible to make potions out of leaves and pinecones or to have a Sleestak to appear out of the shadows and chase you down a dark hallway). I think naivete has its place in MG and YA books, but YA readers might expect the teen protagonist to have a better idea of what they’re doing, or at least a better understanding of how adults think and how the world works.
Amanda Rutter’s definition of MG being focused more on the main character(s) reacting to external events, and YA dealing more with internal conflict, also rings true for me. Although I might like to think that I was more sophisticated in middle school, the truth is that I was not very interested in characters having personal emotional struggles unless it dealt directly with whatever threat they were facing (e.g.; "I'm scared of having to face this dragon by myself because I'm not sure I can do it without my friends," instead of "My fear of this dragon is a physical manifestation of my childhood fear of being without emotional support, due to my traumatic upbringing.")
I remember my elementary school librarian teaching classes who visited that you should read books that have at least 3-5 words you don’t know, per page (!). I thought this was ridiculous (was I supposed to take out a dictionary every single time if there was even one unfamiliar word per page?), so I can appreciate having “soft” boundaries between MG and YA books instead of clearly steering kids towards one or the other. Except for Neil Gaiman and some of the booksellers in the last article, I think that many adults do not understand that it is alright for kids to sometimes read and/or reread books that are “below” their level for much the same reasons that adults read YA or MG: to be comforted by the familiar past and escape from the present or future.
Post by Afton
When I was a kid in Middle School, I always read above my grade level as I found those stories more intriguing and more complex to me. But that doesn't mean I didn't have fun with books categorized under the MG/YA category. There are plenty of books I still look back fondly on that I really enjoyed, like Goosebumps, Percy Jackson, Hunger Games, and more. Those were enjoyable stories I love still. But everyone tends to blur the lines of MG/YA and what should be suited for a younger audience and an older audience. To me, I never really cared for when you should read what, like obviously a baby and or toddler shouldn't be reading IT or The Shining but I think there really shouldn't be an age restriction on books for those who want to keep reading and if they stumble across a book that is a higher reading level I believe they should be able to read it. Middle-grade level age is standard from 8-12 and YA is 12 and up, an example of MG would be Percy Jackson, and an example of YA would be something like IT. I think having soft boundaries between these levels would be best, as if someone wants to read a whole new catalog of books they should be able to while also being limited to select options due to their age as some things can be deemed inappropriate for a read that young. There are many gray areas between the two, like Hunger Games and that's where both areas can be aligned, allowing those young readers to properly segway into the young adult reader level. So my stand upon this argument is that younger audiences shouldn't be shut out from reading what they want, there are ways to monitor what they read but you shouldn't ban them from reading what they want overall. Otherwise, their curiosity in reading won't grow as there won't ever be a want or need to grow to read more, I'm happy my teachers and parents let me read what I wanted to. And let's say kids also want to read books that are considered to easy or below their level, they should also be able to read what they want even if it's considered to be too easy for the age they are. Sometimes books aimed at a younger audience have really good storytelling and we've seen dozens of books and series that have left a mark upon this world just like that and even adults still enjoy them to this day.
I think we can't help but be drawn to the stories that made us as children. I remember really getting into reading for the first time and it was never stories about how annoying homework was or how my sibling was driving me crazy (my brother was very cool, actually. George listened to Led Zeppelin and watched a lot of MST3K.)
It's of my opinion that young fiction has to be big on some level. The feelings we have are so big when we're younger because we're still building a list of experiences to relate everything to. To be young, and specifically of a MG audience, is to be hit in the face with firsts one after another. Every emotion is 110%.
On a different wavelength, I feel that YA fiction focuses heavily on independence. I think that's why so much YA has to deal with budding romances that are clumsy and awkward and embarrassing. It's a time in our lives when we deal with this new frontier for the first time (more firsts!).
Looking at both of these topics on the table, I agree with the O'Neill interview, that young readers are looking to either understand or to escape. I think that, in a large way, we don't really get rid of those desires. It's a big part of why I still read today.
A large part of why we read when we are young is to, in a way, exert some semblance of our own independence. There is a fascinating liberation in going to the library and choosing a book for yourself that you will read by yourself. Similarly, there is a certain brand of privacy that is available when you are reading a book versus watching a TV show or movie or playing a video game. I think that, to read as a younger person, is to begin to display your own agency. I remember being so excited every time the book fair came to school, and I remember loving the chance to run around Borders by myself and choose something to take home with me. No one in my family ever read and it felt so freeing to be able to be as weird as I wanted. I think that books offer that freedom to younger people, specifically MG.
— Luna Fall
Truth be told, I was never one to be very interested in middle grade books, since I more or less started off reading picture books before jumping right into young adult books, such as Warriors or Redwall. For some reason, I never was interested in the journey of people my age, I was always one to be more drawn to the adventures of people entirely different from me and in worlds utterly divorced from our own reality, leaving me pretty firmly in the “escape” camp of young readers if we’re going with O’Neill’s classification.
After all, if my everyday life was utterly boring and consisted mostly of going to school, doing homework, eating, and sleeping, surely it wasn’t going to be any better with books concerning the real world.
(Incorrect, little me. Books set in the real world are equally entertaining and carry all of the messaging you would want, just closer to home.)
Otherwise, I myself really never gave much thought to the exact specifics of the parts that made up a story helping to classify it for a certain age range, I usually depended on the writing style, since most books aimed towards children were, for lack of a better word, somewhat difficult to read since even if they were in a novel format, they read closer to a picture book. One glaring example I distinctly remember is one of the later Wings of Fire books, which had a moment where a character’s dialogue was written in all caps, which I think single-handedly made me put down the book (and series as a whole) because it seemed so amateur: it was closer to a poorly-written fanfiction made by a single-digit-year-old than a proper novel to around 15-year-old me back then. To this day, I think I still mostly base my interpretation of the target audience on the writing itself: if it’s childish, I’ll leave it for the kids, if not, I’ll have a gander at it, though that's probably just my ego talking. And based on the “guidelines” established by the SWFA, then I can pretty confidently say that I almost exclusively read YA books back then, if we’re basing things on length and character age.
However, some “YA” books are mostly certainly written for a younger audience, if you’re asking me.
I’ve never really separated YA and MG books - especially when I was a kid. I was always just really interested in fantasy as a genre, so I would seek out books that met that niche, regardless of their level. The earliest books I remember reading were the deltora quest series and the Ranger's apprentice series. When I was a kid I remember them being amazing, so much so that I had binged both of those series multiple times - a few years ago, I went back to read them again, to see how well they held up. To be honest, I’m pretty impressed. Across the board, both of these series remained really interesting to me, with the only thing really defining these books as “middle grade” and not “young adult” being their limited prose. Things were often short and to the point - which I honestly prefer as a reader. I also checked out a few YA novels that I read when I was young - the main ones being The Wizard of Earthsea and the Percy Jackson series. These….also held up, as in, I could read them today and be completely satisfied with my experience. Whereas the MG books lacked a little in their wording and complexity, the YA books were not. Now, they were no Ulyssess, but they're certainly decently complex. The thing that stuck me the most about the difference between MG and YA was their sense of perspective. MG novels were very focused on grand adventures - heck, the ranger's apprentice series was 15 books long. On the other hand, YA novels were much more focused on the individual and internal struggles of the characters - adventures were very much a part of these novels, but they weren't the main focus. The main focus of YA novels was to mirror problems experienced by the (presumed) audience of the novel, and show the main character conquering them. Heck, the entire plot of the first Earthsea book is about the protagonist releasing a shadow through their own actions and then spending the next few years of their life improving themselves to conquer the darkness that began chasing them. That's almost exactly how a lot of teens feel, or at least, that's how I felt when I was a young adult. When I was a kid and reading those other novels, the idea of a grand expansive world was what captured me - I didn't care about the characters and their struggles as much, I cared more for the opportunities and events that the world had to offer.
The question of the distinction of what makes a book YA versus what makes a book MG rests on a few things. And honestly, in my mind the distinction was fairly clear cut. I'd say MG Fiction is more optimistic, simpler, and an emphasis on adventure or mystery. Molly O'neal points this out when she mentions how often MG readers use their books to escape to another world. On the other hand, in YA fiction, the protagonists face significant internal and external conflicts, and the storytelling is often more nuanced, with a deeper exploration of character emotions and motivations. The story telling is less straight forward.
But I think the main distinction between the two lays in the complexity and deepness of their themes. As well as how they present their themes. YA tend to have more complex, and dark themes such as identity, sexuality, abuse, mental health, and murder. MG on the other hand, often has themes of friendship, family, and wanting to grow up. Not to say that it is not often where these become themes of complexity, but they lend themselves to be easier to couch to a younger reader. This leads to the second point, how much they dig and present their themes. A theme such as murder for example is probably one of the most common things their is between YA and MG. But MG stories tend to lean into murder in any sense is wrong as a moral but for YA stories the theme of murder is more complex. It isn't often just shunted as something as bad, but asks questions of the character such as who should we kill and why.
All of the articles were actually quite consistent with each other, in my opinion. As many of the articles kept stressing, there’s a big importance of knowing the intended audience of your book, and at the same time not writing down to them. They aren’t stupid. And more importantly, they’re spending their own time reading a book that they chose to read and can put down at any point. If they feel like they’re not being respected as a reader or the author is getting in the way of their own story then they’ll just stop reading it.
Like in many good stories, middle-grade and young adult novels have stakes, too, but they generally manifest differently: MG novels have present, external events that protagonists react to, with usually not much time spent in internal dialogue. YA on the other hand is more often introspective, with events that are caused proactively by its protagonists.
Fenyan mentioned Ranger’s Apprentice, which is funny because I wanted to talk about that series, too, since it has some pretty heavy overlap with young adult novels. Even though it’s been a while since I read it, the first thing that came to mind was the final novel, Royal Ranger. It was a lot heavier in tone than what you’d expect in a middle-grade series. It’s interesting, too, since one of the articles talked about that gray area between MG and YA. For example there were issues with assigning Harry Potter to one or the other as the series went on.
Young Adult novels can be separated by the fact that it appeals to teenagers and young adults (duh), who are in a notable transitory period of their lives. So, those novels are predictably quite interested in the protagonist and how they grow and change as a person. The events that happen often have meaning and are causal: they will propel the story forward. Compare that to adult books where things can just happen without any inherent reason, because that’s just how life is.
There was someone in one of the articles who mentioned how YA could be split into two parts, younger and older (“edgy”): young YA being more mature than MG but avoiding graphic depictions of edgy subjects, while older YA doesn’t shy away from those darker themes. I think it’s a very real distinction that should be made. I don’t think it’s really a hot take to say this, but I think that eleven and seventeen-year-olds are quite different in how they view the world and the things that they want to learn and read from.
I have to agree with each article that middle grade is most likely around the ages of 8-12 and young adult is around the ages of 12-18. Although, I do believe young adult fiction can typically entice an audience over eighteen. Mainly I feel if a book catches your attention, you should be able to read it. Now maybe the foundation of the book like the protagonist and plot of the story should cater towards a middle grade audience and young adult fiction novel should cater towards teens yet it necessarily doesn’t have to be read by someone around those age ranges. I agree that we read to either understand something or to escape our current reality. I used to read to escape my current reality when I was younger because it just wasn’t interesting enough. It was nice to have a place where I could venture to, so I could either pretend to be someone else or pretend to be part of that protagonist’s groups of friends. We relate with the characters in stories when we feel no one else understands. At least that is what I did in school when I had free time to myself. I simply opened a book and went into a world where everything made sense to me regardless of the age of the characters in the stories.
When I first began reading and writing I never really heard of MG or YA fiction. I knew that there were books for kids, teens, and adults, but I didn’t specifically know the names for them. Since I have a better understanding of what other people believe YA fiction to be I think my writings cater towards older teens, but the thing is if you can relate to my characters experience within in the story then it is for you. The fact that people in their early twenties still read YA fiction says a lot that stories really connect with our emotions and situations in life. That is why it is hard to define middle grade and young adult fiction and the age ranges for them. If we go back to books that seem to be for preteens but gives us a sense wonder and excitement then the author has done a magnificent job with their storytelling.
Before reading these articles, I never really considered the difference in MG and YA. Since I never thought about it, I didn't even know there was that big of a difference and assumed they were two names for the same thing. But looking back at it now, I definitely see the difference in age groups and the kinds of content they touch on. MG is for people slightly younger than the YA audience because it's more focused on how the characters react to things happening around them and navigating their world. In YA, it's more of the characters having more moments to themselves and understanding themselves alongside the people they're with. Since tween and teenage ranges are so vastly different because of how quickly kids grow up and mature at their own paces, assigning many books into a certain category is tough. I feel like a lot of YA and MG books could fall into either distinction.
I definitely think that at the end of the day, both MG and YA could be used as escapism away from the real world to just enjoy a story told in a different world. When I was a lot younger and read more often, I would pick books with settings that had nothing to do with the real world because I enjoyed getting to read about things that weren't possible in reality like magic or mysteries. To me, it feels hard to judge what age range will like a book because children don't always like the same things. Obviously books with more explicit content are closer to YA than MG, but that doesn't mean that MG books can't tackle darker themes. I think the biggest difference is how the book handles these conflicts. MG is usually written to be more light and "moral educating" where it shows its readers basic morals and principles to follow. Meanwhile YA would more likely get into more nuances since it's written for a slightly older audience that could better understand things and have more critical thinking for themselves to make decisions and form opinions.
OZ:
The separation of MG and YA is something that I've never actually truly considered--especially since I was such an avid reader when I was younger, ESPECIALLY the YA genre. I ate that genre up like Thanksgiving dinner. Especially John Green, for some reason. My first book of his that I read was An Abundance Of Katherines, which is actually a very funny book, but I don't remember the plot or anything else about it, really, just that he used footnotes a lot and I thought that was great and innovative and yadda yadda. John Green was middle grade me standard, and while he's absolutely yes, a good writer, he's not something I would reach for now. His style, while sharp and defined, usually has a very simple, almost self-indulgent plot. He writes for himself, it feels sometimes. Good for him!
But besides that, I never truly considered the differences in YA and MG, and I didn't even think of them as separate "genres" in their own right. I also didn't realize that so many pieces were able to fit under each umbrella--I think that's what surprised me the most. The limit truly does not exist, methinks. For example, even if you're someone in 6th, 7th, 8th grade, you don't need to be held back by THAT number and can instead reach for a young adult book because they're so similar (in the sense that...) that they're almost touching, in a way. It's easy to switch from MG to YA because, despite certain complexities and probably also themes, they're yes, very similar.
I think as the volume of middle-grade and YA novels increases, the distinction between the two becomes ever more critical. Everyone featured in these articles focused on two main concepts to describe the genre: target audience and structure. Of course, there are many other vital details, but they all fall under one of these umbrellas. From a marketing perspective, stories aren’t about joining the author in the story but trusting that the reader will find something valuable. In Molly O’Neill and Michael Bourret’s discussion, I love how they talked about these genres being critical for young readers–if a child finds “that book,” it changes them irrecoverably forever. That the written word can offer them something beautiful and help them connect with themselves and the world in a way they never experienced beforehand. That’s all to say that these genres represent a literary battleground, fighting for the literary future of children. The part I struggle with the most as a learning writer is that I’m tempted to age up characters that are part of a story I’ve had in my head for a while. Whenever I feel that way, I try to reconsider who the target audience is, but now I think I’m also going to start considering the overall story structure too as a part of that process. More often than not, I’ll age them back down to something more reasonable. Age seems arbitrary, but it allows readers to connect with the most essential characters in protagonistic and antagonistic ways. I hope to write a story a child would consider “that book” for themselves one day, a story full of wonder, difficulty, and hope. There’s been some discussion on Booktok about how NA (new adult) is occasionally mismarketed as YA. Maybe this is just my echo chamber on the internet, but I do think it’s true. For example, with Sarah J. Maas’s A Court of Thorns and Roses, I enjoyed the first four books in high school and stopped at the fifth, suddenly noticing the prevalence of sex scenes and DNF’d. Then I realized how prevalent it was in the previous books (except for the first?). My mind had completely skipped over them as I had absolutely no recollection of those scenes. I would say I got lucky, my mind skipped the more mature scenes while still retaining the fond memories of reading through the series. All in all, I would say mismarketing becomes a concern when more mature topics are involved in a story that takes away from the reader’s sense of value and connection to the story.
To me, the lines between MG and YA, themes wise, are pretty blurred since a plenty of writers seem to not be afraid to include a little bit of complexity and mature themes to their readers, and so whatever themes and ages of characters in a work don't necessarily reflect who the work is intended for. A work with children as main characters may appeal to an older audience for example. However there are certainly styles of storytelling that belong more to Young Adult works than middle grade works such as internal conflicts, more mature themes/issues. Middle grade works usually are fantasy or sci-fi since they are looking for an escape.
Dumbing down your work because of the age of your target audience is a bit ridiculous to me, because by doing so the work ends up lacking gravitas, and it ends up being counterproductive in a way, because age alone does not decide what content your work has. It's what the reader himself is seeking in reading. And this is one of the things that separate the bad from the good MG/YA writers for me.
I read and watch plenty of manga and anime, and the categories of shonen(meant for young boys) and seinen(young men/adults) are kind of similar to the MG and YA categories. Both categories contain some degree of complexity and maturity in their story telling, but what I've noticed that in the west, series of these kinds are more associated with teenagers and adults, however in Japan, even kids in the ages of 8 years old are watching shows like Attack on Titan or Oshi no Ko, which sometimes surprises people over here in the West since we usually see series like that when we're teenagers. Cultural differences may be one of the reasons why this is the case, but it's an example of how even younger people are interested in these kinds of works, because at that age, their mind is curious to know about the complexities of the world they're living in and they are willing to escape. That's one of the reasons I'm a fan of Japanese film and literature, because they are usually very open to including maturity and complexity in their work, because in the end, shonen and seinen and MG and YA just say the age range of the work's intended audience, not necessarily what is in the work itself.
I find this debate about the actual meaning of the genre to actually be really important. I read A LOT - and many of those books are towing the line between YA and NA - just because that’s what I enjoy. It is very obvious to me when a book is NA, but there are some books that are trying to be YA but don’t fit the bill. I think there are some authors/publishers that are trying to market to YA because it is a hot selling point - kids might just have more time to read than adults - so they claim that their book is for that age group, but they’re really marketing to 17-18 and older. There comes a problem here, where books will be placed in the YA section of a bookstore and will be rather explicit in violence or sexual situations, and that just isn’t what has been deemed appropriate for the whole of that age group - 12 year-old are in that aisle, trying to find the next good story, and despite what Niel Gaiman said about kids, I don’t know if young teens are good enough at regulating themselves to not read something that’s too much for them. In my understanding, YA is a genre for 12-18, with MG being a more precise category just before it, reaching ages 8-13. They have pretty distinct elements that set them apart, even as far as cover art. Many times MG books are more cartoony and colorful, while YA books are less obvious. Lisa Yoskowitz in the SFWA article also includes that MG books include characters of that age group - younger than teens - because those readers can then relate to them. Obviously it happens, but I don’t often see many 12 year-olds reading a book with a character that is 24 and relating to them as much as they do to someone like Percy Jackson, who is their age. Judith Rosen has an interesting debate about whether certain series should be split up - like Harry Potter books 1-4 should be in MG, but 5-7 in YA. This discernment is interesting and I think it is generally ridiculous to separate books in a series, and I think this is where (possibly) that self-regulation comes in that Gaiman talked about - kids can start a series and when/if it gets to be too much they can drop it. If most of the books in a series fit one category more than the other, they should be placed in that section. Harry Potter I think has 4 books in MG, and 3 in YA - so simply I’d leave it in MG.
I didn’t really care whether something was MG or YA, but after reading through the blog post I find myself with conflicting opinions. I think the idea that YA has to have teenage main characters made me immediately question the authors-mainly because defining terms can be so subjective, and I think you can accomplish the same goals with the adult characters. It's conflicting though, and I guess my question lies with trying to categorize everything and feeling like those tags restrict people's creative liberty, when in reality it's just meant as a way to filter books. I think the definition of YA and the difference from MG is the themes it deals with, like stated before, but I don’t think that means the characters have to also be teens. I think the line is different for everyone, which makes it so hard to create solid definitions in an industry where creative liberties are taken everyday.
I was most interested in the article which talked about the layout of the bookstores. Even though I used to love arranging my (dormitory) room's furniture around, I never laid it out for the guests visiting my room; I mostly laid it out for myself, trying to optimize things like head-and-table space for myself. The school I transferred from had something called the Brooker prize for book collections. I never entered, but the books were all themed-- anything from language-learning to religious-love books (two categories that I faintly remember). Anyway, the digital humanist in me was also drawn to two out of the three "Further Reading" blog-posts that were linked to by both the very professionally-put-together Alex D. and SFWA website. The comments were not riddled with spam, but there were some questionable links that made me glad my browser had a "tool-tip" feature that allowed me to hover over the text and see where the possibly mis-leading hyper-linked text would lead to. I can't say I'm surprised to see this level of "bit-graffiti" (stemmed from the idea of "bit-rot") over these two blog-posts. As for the content of the blogs, I do not have much to say. I will say that the fourth-from-the-top blog-post was similarly titled to the article with a dead link on the SFWA website (which doesn't quite count as bit-graffiti in my book, but is definitely a digital artifact/bit-rot). I'm also curious whether there is a way to "axiomatize" the postulates that Cheryl Klein laid out in her blog post about YA/MG books, so that artificial intelligence systems will be able to categorize them as such. I guess I did talk about the content of one of the blog posts, I suppose, so there you go. Nit-picking at the way these article's "robots.txt" were generated, I am curious why the second article from the top did not have a "Click heading to read ...." I'm also curious as to why this week's post is 350 words as opposed to 250 words, but I am not opposed to this, as the readings this week were shorter, but harder to focus on, for some reason. Maybe that is just me. Anyway, I have made it to the end of the line, and I rest my case.
I submitted my previous comment prematurely...
I also appreciate this idea: "everything else-- dragons, the definition of justice, life in 1908 Russia-- is secondary to the experience of the main character and is usually filtered through him/her." I think this really speaks to the perspective of a teenager, who tend to take events in life in general personally and assume the world revolves around them, however unintentionally. I remember being 14 and heartbroken on a family trip to Paris, literally unable to enjoy the quality time with them in this beautiful place because I was so stuck in my own experience. Thinking back to that moment in my life makes me resonate with this description of YA- that everything around the protagonist should be filtered through their point of view and experience of life.
I have never really thought about the difference between MG and YA because growing up I didn't read as much once I became a teen. Reading the Brooklyn Arden post I really agree with her criteria for a YA novel since I think it hits all the points. When she made the distinctions between YA and adult novels, I found that a lot of the things YA novels have still appeal to me. I don't know if it's because I find it fun or because I need to grow up. But I found her point about there needing to be a story and hope really interesting as I find those really true. Teens growing up usually need a more nicely packaged story than an adult would since they're still new to the world, and adding hope to a story is very necessary, in my opinion, at least in MG books. I find that this makes the read more satisfying and digestible for younger audiences. Her point that more needs to happen in YA books than in adult books also makes sense as I feel like as a teenager I needed a lot more to happen in a book for it to interest me or else I'd put it down, but in an adult book, life just happens, which is something that an adult would be more familiar with. Overall, I feel like I personally still enjoy sort of YA style books but probably with more aged up characters. I find the fact that the MG and YA genres have such a blurred line between them very interesting because the age range for these books is so large yet those ages are also when people grow the most. You'd think there would be more distinctions.
I’m intrigued by the idea that middle graders are reading to “escape” or “understand.” The explanation about “understanding” and putting things around them together totally makes sense, but not as much for the “escape” part, especially as the writer said they do that, even more so when they are BORED from their ordinary life because I thought escapist was a pretty common theme for adult fictions and movies especially at a background like the present times. I agree with what they said about paying using the marketing mindset in writing and considering what the readers want to see (although I doubt if myself is really THERE yet), but about what the interview points out about looking it up from the recently published works, doesn’t it mean that the YG/MA stories, or fiction writing, in general, are kind of repeating or reinforcing what was already out there? I learned that children’s books at earlier stages were mostly for educational or disciplinary purposes and later evolved to be for fun and inspiration, but ideology could still be unconsciously interweaved with the stories. In this case, I wonder if the really outstanding YG/MA fiction can be more progressive in terms of writing purposes because I heard it some time ago that children are intrigued by reality and truth (even if they are cruel and harsh) over the romanticized stories. So is it possible that instead of writing fantasies that would no doubt be a pleasure to read, there could be a pinch of harsh reality in YG/MA fiction, too? I hope this doesn’t sound too absurd, but I came up with this because some cartoons I watched as a kid were tragedies that reveal the dark shades of life and reality me and my peers at the time were still fascinated even though we probably didn’t understand the ideology part at all. Still, as we look back at them as adults, we find that we could easily find distinct interpretations for what we thought we knew at the time. I probably wouldn’t try to distinct much between young adult fiction and adult fiction because grown-ups need hope, romance and fantacies just as much as children need the truth.
I had always assumed that the differences between young adult and middle-grade fiction just came down to the age of the characters. This would impact the underlying theme or tone of the story, but I didn't think too deeply about how it changes. Molly O'Neill did make it clear that age is still an essential factor to consider—like how a 12 y/o wouldn't want to read about someone who's obscenely old or far younger but just in their age range—but the story is more about creating an adventure for an escape to a world where their life isn't as dull. Even considering my own experiences, MG is (as O'Neill pointed out) the perfect summer read when I was obscenely bored and just wanted a break from what I considered a monotonous and boring summer break. I have attempted to go back and read some of these books over the last few years, though, and have bumped up against the issue that they make me feel like I'm being talked down to, like I'm stupid, and I don't know any of the implicit messages. While I had no issue with this when I was still in the 4th grade, there are just many, many instances of writers "writing down" to their readers, isolating their books to a specific age range and almost making them inaccessible to anyone, even slightly older than who they see to be the perfect audience.
As a writer, though, I now have a clearer definition of how MG and YA books are differentiated through the writing aspect (completely disregarding the marketing aspect for now). There still is a lot of similarity to how I view the two categories, and I feel that books that may have originally been intended for a YA audience may end up appealing to MG ones instead, and vice versa. This isn't a bad thing, especially given how it could serve to bridge a gap where MG readers may want to "read up" but not dive so deep into a fantastical world where every action is meant to be seen and not read. But, being able to specifically cater to an audience through (as Chengles said best) a "coming-of-age" like storyline, showing growth and dramatizing events, having stakes, and dealing with the characters' choices. As a writer, I find dealing with these topics far easier than writing to cater to an MG group, possibly because, as an adult, it's easier to draw from my own experiences and create something that has its consequences on the fictional world I'm writing in.
I want to end this post with something I need clarification on. If MG/YA are also heavily differentiated by their marketing, like where they're placed in a bookstore and how they're spread (word of mouth or through talks), I'm curious how online sellers like Amazon affect these traits.
I think a solid way to delineate between MG and YA would be the content of the material, specifically if a younger audience or a mature audience would be able to grasp the themes and premise of said novel. I think a lot of material out there, children or younger audiences can read but have material that really meant for individuals who have the years of experiences and wisdom that comes with getting older. In that case, a label like YA would work to signify the material but could also be suggested to a younger audience to see if it might interest them.
Molly O'Neill's point about middle grade fiction being an avenue of escape really resonated with me. Growing up, I was a guy who would get in trouble because I was reading Animorphs during class time, and I loved escaping into my own little world like that. On the topic of Animorphs (which I know I talk about a lot but it's just such a good example of MG/YA scifi. And it owns), I think that series is also a good example of how blurred the line between MG and YA can be. Reading it when I was 8, I was enraptured by the world KA Applegate made, with aliens and battles and morphing sequences and an overwhelming sense of camaraderie and teenage friendship. Reading them now, though, holy shit! They're crazy gory! Even the titular morphing sequences are really really gross, and describe bones crushing, organs squishing and melting away, and all the characters getting nauseous from the process. There's a scene where the characters demorph, from flies to humans, while INSIDE a Taxxon (a big centipede-like alien) causing it to burst open and them to get covered in its guts! And I was in 3rd grade absolutely eating it up! It's not just shock value in those books, though, the themes and storylines are really mature. Overall, the story is about fascism and war trauma. Familial death, loss of autonomy, suicide, and the horror of realizing that killing is easier than you expected are crucial to the story, all stuff that I was absolutely NOT thinking about at the age the books were aimed at. Which isn't to say I think this is a flaw. I actually think the blurred line between MG, YA, and adult fiction is pretty great, and things that fall within that blur are really good developmentally for children. Reading (spoilers) the scene where Jake commands Rachel to kill his Yeerk-infested brother was horrifying for young me, yes, but I didn't really mind. In fact, it was the first time I'd really read a story with that kind of emotional complexity and depth. Without even realizing, I'd broadened my horizons through the crucible of badass space alien scifi. In a way, I think the definition of MG/YA doesn't so much depend on the writer as it does the reader. To me, if a book resonates with an adolescent/teen and acts as a transitory device towards maturity, that counts as MG or YA. And I don't think the difference matters so much, apart from marketing.
I was certainly interested in the possible reasons why middle graders read. Molly O'Neill listed that the reasons involved were wanting to escape, wanting to understand, or even both. When she said that middle schoolers might not want to read about day-to-day things like "piano lessons" or homework; they might be looking to find something new and novel that would explode their entire world of understanding. I also understand the other viewpoint of how they would read to understand their day-to-day life. Some characters can turn into figures they look up to. Such figures have a great influence on the behavior of middle graders. I know that I personally looked to escape- as many others would, too. For me, the world I understood didn't really require any guidance from books. The idea that you must find what your audience wants really stood out to me because something so simple can also be difficult to ascertain.
The line between YA and MG should be rather distinct. Middle-grade books should be about understanding daily life or about the mystical. The YA books focus more on self-discovery, growth, actions, concerns, drive, and motivation. For instance, when I think of YA, I immediately think of Percy Jackson. For me, that book series was a method of escape because I was enamored by the Greek gods and their own unique quirks and personalities. Looking back, I think it was a bit of understanding and escape. I found characters and quirks that resonated with me in these Greek gods, but I also found escape in the mythical setting of the world. Another interesting thing in the readings was that the way YA and MG schools are marketed is different. The fact that YA books are built on word of mouth is fascinating. MG books use more straightforward language and focus more on storyline and dialogue, whereas YA books have more literary freedom to pursue complex themes. Middle-grade literature often maintains a sense of innocence and optimism, even when dealing with challenging themes. Young adult literature explores darker subjects and emotions, which, in a way, reflects the ever-changing nature of adolescence.
I've been thinking about the connection between the ages of the characters in YA/MG novels and the ages of their intended audiences as I wrote my five page excerpt for this class. I wrote my excerpt about a ten-year-old protagonist, but as I wrote it, part of me wondered if I wanted to write the story through the mature lens of an adult narrator, one who could assess the events of the story and thoughts of the young protagonist with all the wisdom and knowledge of a grown person. The narrator would almost, but not quite, function as a character in and of itself who's much older than the protagonist. I then began to wonder if that would make my story no longer a MG/YA novel. But then, shouldn't MG/YA novels be allowed to be more mature and insightful than their readers necessarily are? This connects to Judith Rosen's article because she points out that older readers are often drawn to popular MG books. Giving my excerpt a more intuitive edge to it would make it more accessible and appealing to a wider audience. My only concern is then alienating the middle grade audience it was originally written for.
I’ve never really thought about the difference between Young Adult and Middle Grade; maybe that’s because when I learned English, I was at the age you transition from Middle Grade to Young Adult. Regardless, the difference between the two seemed blurred to me, but after reading "Middle Grade and YA: Where to Draw the Line?" by Judith Rosen and discussing it in class, I think I have a better understanding. I would put it this way: Middle Grade tries to explore the imagination without trying to kill the readers' imagination or their will to read via far too creepy/scary descriptions or anything that is too explicit. Middle grade is meant to be a vessel for readers to channel their curiosity and learn more about what they want via fun stories. It is also there for readers to escape, as Molly O’Neal mentioned. Readers read to be engrossed in different realms of reality, and Middle Grade is a welcoming introduction to it since it is meant to be simply comforting and does not necessarily try to offend anyone. I think as you transition into Young Adult fiction, you can read stories where you will hate the protagonist but keep reading because you love everything else about the story. YA can cover the same topics as MG but while being more bold. Although there is still a line that should not be crossed in YA, if you maneuver around it carefully, everything should work. I was intrigued by how Rosen brought up the distinction between YA and MG, saying that Middle grade books are a connection shared between young readers and adults who give recommendations to those readings, connecting the two age groups by reading. But then, in Young Adult books, the readers will want to read books that are not recommended to them by adults but rather word of mouth that spreads around their age group. I think some people will think it is a form of conformity, but I think it is about understanding themselves and their age group, and what way would be better to learn about people their age than to read stories about children their age who are going through similar issues.
Molly O'Neill's ideology on middle grade reading was very introspective. You're not trying to decipher the purpose of the genre itself, instead she encourages you to ask “Who is the middle grade reader, and what is he/she looking for in a book?”. It starts to individualize your future readers (especially the ones who have a common interest of empathizing with their escapism). When I read MG/YA novels, I am very particular. I want a base of realism with small hints of fantasy, like I'm vacationing in Scotland and I see Loch Ness Monster prints or my husband's an astronaut who encounters "Alien." I want what I'm reading to be whimsical and an escape from reality, but not far-fetched enough that my mind knows it's unattainable to be there. It's the hope that I can be in my escape (the real parts of it mainly) that keeps me invested in the story. Hence the "connections" and "understanding" O'Neill was divulging about that resonate with me as both a MG/YA reader and aspiring writer. The gradual transition she describes "from the everyday mundane stuff to big concepts" play a crucial role in keeping the reader invested while maintaining that attainability that may make them curious about the author's writing style as a whole. When someone who can feel so insignificant in this big world is able to find an incredible reason to a mundane system of sorts (similar to the Big Bang), they are able to find joy, excitement and even passion within not only their book, but themselves.
When the Percy Jackson movie came out many, many years ago, I was in the sixth grade. We had a discussion in class regarding the character Grover, was portrayed by a black actor despite my class believing he was supposed to be white. Coming from a school district that’s populated almost entirely of privileged white people, we thought it was wrong to cast Grover as black. We believed it wasn’t accurate to the character. My language arts teacher told us that movies have the freedom to cast whoever embodies the character, no matter race. I took that fact in stride and thought not much more of it after, accepting what she said and moving on with my life. It wasn’t until years later I realized just how homogenous my upbringing was, and how much internalized racism was present in children’s literature. If not Grover, who else was there? I can’t to this day think of a book I read in grade school that wasn’t explicitly about African studies.
Another memory I have is of buying children’s books for my soon to be nephew (my cousin’s baby who I call my nephew). It was 2021 and among the aisles at Barnes and Noble, I saw an array of picture books representing all different skin colors and types of people. I was happy to see the diversity being represented, and it made me feel good that I was about to gift Conor a book I never had as a kid - one highlighting the beauty of people that didn’t look like me.
Exploring the differentiation between middle grade (MG) and young adult (YA) literature is an insightful journey, isn't it? Before delving into this discussion, I hadn't given much consideration to the distinct markers that set these categories apart. Initially, like many others, I assumed it primarily revolved around the maturity of themes and language, relegating MG to more innocent topics and YA to more mature ones.
Yet, as the discourse unfolds, it becomes evident that the demarcation extends beyond mere content restrictions. The essence of the "coming-of-age" narrative, central to both MG and YA genres, emerges as a critical factor. It's a concept I've sometimes overlooked, but its importance in catering to the evolving perspectives and experiences of younger readers cannot be overstated.
The idea that protagonists in MG literature should mirror the age of their intended audience presents a unique challenge. Recalling my own youth, I find it challenging to bridge the gap between my current perspective and that of a middle-grade reader. Similarly, while YA offers more flexibility in addressing mature themes and diverse backgrounds, capturing the essence of teenage experiences remains pivotal. It's a delicate balance, one that requires careful consideration of both narrative voice and relatable elements.
Hyacinth's reflections on her own reading preferences resonate with me. Like her, my journey into avid reading began in my teenage years, gravitating naturally towards YA literature. While I appreciate the accessibility and authenticity that comes with writing for a younger audience, I find myself drawn more towards exploring mature themes and complex characters characteristic of YA fiction.
Yet, as Hyacinth wisely points out, these classifications shouldn't serve as rigid barriers. The essence of storytelling lies in its ability to transcend boundaries and connect with readers across ages and genres. While I may feel more aligned with writing for an older audience, the allure of exploring middle-grade narratives and the universal themes they encapsulate remains ever-present.
In essence, navigating the realms of MG and YA literature is a journey of self-discovery as much as it is about understanding the nuances of storytelling. It's about finding the delicate balance between relatability and imagination, authenticity and aspiration. And perhaps, in embracing the fluidity of these genres, we can uncover new avenues for creative expression and connection with readers of all ages.
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